Author Topic: Uni Student Ticket Help:Turning Right onto a residential street off Hamilton  (Read 860 times)

January 18, 2016, 11:33 AM #0

JessyMrozowski Offline

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As the subject line says, I'm a university student who recently received a ticket for turning right Off of Hamilton onto Valley View Pl. I always take that route to get to school now since the bridge on Ness is closed down for construction. I was unaware that they just recently (Jan 16-18) erected a sign saying I couldn't turn there anymore, and just kind of drove on through by habit. Was immediately pulled over along with a handful of other drivers who take the same route.

What are my best options for fighting or at least getting the ticket reduced? I feel as if $210 is a little hefty for such a small thing. this is all new to me.

photo for reference of location
Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 11:36 AM by JessyMrozowski

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    January 18, 2016, 11:37 AM #1

    JessyMrozowski Offline

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    Reading this [ http://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/fines/faq.html#8 ] a bit, I have the option to plead guilty with explanation which seems like the best option so far. how would i approach this or come up with an explanation ?

      January 18, 2016, 12:17 PM #2

      dano Offline

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      A couple of other due diligences: check the back of the sign for a sticker indicating when the sign was erected, and ask for the city's records for when it was erected and if / when any lead time was provided.

      Like any signage, there is usually some kind of notification of new signs are put up, or are put up stating they'll come into effect on x day or x time.

      But they'll still likely just say you should be paying attention to the signs unfortunately.
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        January 18, 2016, 12:27 PM #3

        KyleDes Offline

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        Originally posted by dano
        But they'll still likely just say you should be paying attention to the signs unfortunately.
        That's unfortunate because of how expensive the ticket is...

          January 18, 2016, 12:29 PM #4

          JessyMrozowski Offline

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          I don't remember seeing anything about it being a new sign or stating when it was going to be in effect. I'll double check on my way home though, thanks !

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            January 18, 2016, 01:03 PM #5

            dano Offline

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            Originally posted by JessyMrozowski
            I don't remember seeing anything about it being a new sign or stating when it was going to be in effect. I'll double check on my way home though, thanks !

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            I was just on my lunch, but what I was getting at was if they weren't doing their due diligence in following internal procedures for putting up signs, then they should be held accountable (by not getting revenue from tickets). It's like the school zone issue - if they don't have signs up, then you shouldn't be charged. Or construction zones - they'll usually have a big sign that says "construction starts month day to month day" well in advance of major construction. Or if say they are clearing streets, they are supposed to put up signage in advance and only clear between the designated times.

            So for some of those more permanent signs, if you go walking along a downtown street, you can usually see a sticker on the back of the sign that has like a hole punched or a date written on it for when it was put up. Or if they put up a new say stop light, they'll put up a sign that indicates the stop light is new.

            Double check not only what the HTA says but also the city bylaws, as there might be something in there about giving warning of traffic signage / signal changes.

            Edit:
            http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/informationandresources/trafficcontrol/pdf/Manual_of_Temp_Traffic_Control_2015.pdf

            Quote (selected)
            2.02.A Regional Street Lane Closures
            When a long term lane closure or a short term lane closure during peak periods is required on a Regional Street, the Traffic Management Branch must be contacted to approve the closure timing (times and/or dates) and temporary traffic control requirements (turn restrictions, etc.). This is to ensure that no conflicting projects are near the location and to provide public notice via the Regional Streets Lane Closures website and/or media release. This assists in minimizing the impact to safe and efficient movement of traffic. Generally a minimum of 3 business days’ notice is required prior to the start of the lane closure, however for more complex projects including full and directional closures, 2 weeks’ notice is required. When contacting the Traffic Management Branch, please provide the following information:

            Quote (selected)
            2.02.C Authorizing Regulatory Signs and Optional Designated Construction Zones
            The following requests require approval by the Traffic Management Branch:
            ● Requests for temporary turn restrictions, yield or stop signs.
            ● Temporary posted speed limit reductions.
            ● Optional Designated Construction Zones.
            Specific details on the requirements for temporary posted speed limit reductions and
            optional Designated Construction Zones can be found in Sections 3.04 and 3.05.A
            respectively.
            Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 01:11 PM by dano
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              January 18, 2016, 02:03 PM #6

              Autter Offline

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              Damn @dano, gonna come to you when I wanna fight my next ticket.
              You got the HTA on lock down.
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                January 18, 2016, 02:49 PM #7

                JessyMrozowski Offline

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                Woah @dano , Thanks for all the information! I'm going to start reading up on all this asap. Really appreciate all the effort put in to helping me resolve this.

                just reading the quote about 2.02.A:
                - They definitely did not provide the minimum of 3 business days of notice in advance (signs were not there Friday).
                - It also disrupted the flow of traffic greatly as lots of people within the area use that route to get onto Ness now that the bridge is under construction (would that count as a conflicting project?) and it seems as if none of them were notified as well. whether it be through the website or media release.

                After getting further evidence (date on the back of the signs, maybe more), would It be sufficient?

                I doubt it is a permanent sign, only a temporary convenience for the residents living within the neighborhood as they won't have as much traffic going through now. They'll probably remove it once the construction on Ness is finished.


                  January 18, 2016, 04:11 PM #8

                  kdavidmazur Offline

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                  Depending which tactics you want to commit to, I do know a few friends of mine have gotten their tickets reduced using the plea that they're students and can't afford it. They were speeding tickets though.

                    January 18, 2016, 04:15 PM #9

                    dano Offline

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                    I don't see anything for Hamilton or Valley View
                    http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/laneclosures/laneclosures.asp#H
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                      January 18, 2016, 04:18 PM #10

                      JessyMrozowski Offline

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                      Originally posted by dano
                      I don't see anything for Hamilton or Valley View
                      http://www.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/laneclosures/laneclosures.asp#H
                      Is this something I should address immediately?

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                      Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 04:50 PM by JessyMrozowski

                        January 18, 2016, 05:07 PM #11

                        cluelessk Offline

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                        I say always fight. Was just in court today and my tickets both got thrown out.

                        Being a student they'll probably reduce the fine. If you've got a clean record they may throw out the ticket completely.

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                        [Mar 23 12:14:28] Anne Gus:nah clueless is right

                          January 18, 2016, 05:22 PM #12

                          dano Offline

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                          Originally posted by JessyMrozowski
                          Is this something I should address immediately?

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                          You should probably take a screenshot of the page and a pdf of it if possible.

                          I also think you should just fight the ticket outright.

                          You can also call around or read that document for who to contact to see if they have a record of the sign going up and what if any notice was given, and see if you can get that in writing / email.

                          Also, go take a picture of the front and back of the sign, up close if possible.

                          Going further you could also request the number of people stopped / ticketed / warnings for the same infraction on that days and nearby days. If a number of people are ticketed for the same thing as you say, it could be evidence that not enough notice was given. Usually for a first offense for something like that a warning could be issued, if actual enforcement was the reason behind it.
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                            January 18, 2016, 05:52 PM #13

                            JessyMrozowski Offline

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                            @dano
                            I went back to the scene of the crime and talked to someone else who also got ticketed this morning. He said he got no notice in advance about the new sign and also mentioned that there was a line up of cars waiting to get there ticket as well.They as well didn't get a notice in advance, he mentioned.

                            Took pictures of the signs, one of which had a new sticker and an old one. The rest were dated for today (Jan 18).

                            Originally posted by dano
                            I also think you should just fight the ticket outright.

                            To do that do i plead not guilty? or should I go downtown and wait in line one day to see a judge?

                            Edit:
                            Is this something that could help out as well?
                            Quote (selected)
                            2.02.B Regional Street Lane Closures on Weekends, Public Holidays or at Night
                            Many Regional Streets operate at or above capacity in at least one direction during either or both of the weekday peak periods, 07:00 to 09:00 and 15:30 to 17:30 Monday-Friday. Any lane closures during these periods in the direction(s) of peak travel can significantly increase congestion and delay, negatively impacting the public. Congestion and delay on Regional Streets is of particular concern in the vicinity of river crossings and on streets with limited access where alternative routes are not readily available.
                            Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 06:07 PM by JessyMrozowski

                              January 18, 2016, 06:13 PM #14

                              dano Offline

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                              Originally posted by JessyMrozowski
                              @dano
                              I went back to the scene of the crime and talked to someone else who also got ticketed this morning. He said he got no notice in advance about the new sign and also mentioned that there was a line up of cars waiting to get there ticket as well.They as well didn't get a notice in advance, he mentioned.

                              Took pictures of the signs, one of which had a new sticker and an old one. The rest were dated for today (Jan 18).

                              To do that do i plead not guilty? or should I go downtown and wait in line one day to see a judge?

                              Edit:
                              Is this something that could help out as well?
                              I think you have to plead not guilty and a court date will be provided like a year in the future. Maybe contact the guy at wiseupwinnipeg to give him a heads up - maybe the media will get involved.

                              But honestly I haven't ever had a ticket to fight do I'm not 100% sure if the procedure. I'm sure someone else will chime in.
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