Author Topic: JDM Forester seatbelt question  (Read 1602 times)

April 12, 2016, 02:25 PM #0

PK-FXT Offline

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I am importing an 01 Forester STi and preparing parts for it when it lands. I have purchased some new LHD OEM headlights. But I'm wondering if someone could tell me if the seat belts have CMVSS on the tags already or I should look into replacements.

Also if you got your JDM forester saftied did they even care about the seat belts? In my opinion its the headlights that are the only issue they should have. The seat belts are exactly the same just different tags sewn on. But I want to have my ass covered so there isn't much downtime when it arrives. 

Thanks

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    JDM Forester seatbelt question
    « on: April 12, 2016, 02:25 PM »

    April 12, 2016, 03:06 PM #1

    dano Offline

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    Originally posted by PK-FXT
    I am importing an 01 Forester STi and preparing parts for it when it lands. I have purchased some new LHD OEM headlights. But I'm wondering if someone could tell me if the seat belts have CMVSS on the tags already or I should look into replacements.

    Also if you got your JDM forester saftied did they even care about the seat belts? In my opinion its the headlights that are the only issue they should have. The seat belts are exactly the same just different tags sewn on. But I want to have my ass covered so there isn't much downtime when it arrives. 

    Thanks
    I don't think you need to worry about belts. I never had any of mine have an issue.

    There was a thread somewhere about comparing the standards of CMVSS/FMVSS and I'm not sure if its JIL or some other japanese standard, but it was discovered that both are comparable, and the japanese standard is only slightly better than CMVSS/FMVSS.

    You will also need to set up DRL's so, consider using fog lights or purchasing an LED kit.

    Your tires might not be DOT stamped, so consider that as well.
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      April 12, 2016, 03:12 PM #2

      PK-FXT Offline

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      Originally posted by dano
      I don't think you need to worry about belts. I never had any of mine have an issue.

      There was a thread somewhere about comparing the standards of CMVSS/FMVSS and I'm not sure if its JIL or some other japanese standard, but it was discovered that both are comparable, and the japanese standard is only slightly better than CMVSS/FMVSS.

      You will also need to set up DRL's so, consider using fog lights or purchasing an LED kit.

      Your tires might not be DOT stamped, so consider that as well.

      That's what I figured, I won't bother with the belts. Thanks!

      Yeah I was going to use the fogs as DRL's or just wire a DRL module in.

      Not concerened about the tires as I am quite sure the tires on the current wheels are DOT stamped, if not I have a second set of tires I'm going to use on it anyways. so that is covered.

        April 12, 2016, 04:50 PM #3

        barrett Offline

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        Dano definitely has the JDM forester experience to back it up. I didn't do the belts on my forester when I brought it in. Also, if you leave the factory lights turned on, and turn the car off the lights turn off too. Unlike north american cars. Because of this the mechanic I got to do my safety didn't care that it didn't have specific DRL. Just leave the lights turned on. Would be an issue for others tho.

        you'll also need a neutral safety switch installed most likely.
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          April 12, 2016, 05:38 PM #4

          PK-FXT Offline

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          Originally posted by barrett
          Dano definitely has the JDM forester experience to back it up. I didn't do the belts on my forester when I brought it in. Also, if you leave the factory lights turned on, and turn the car off the lights turn off too. Unlike north american cars. Because of this the mechanic I got to do my safety didn't care that it didn't have specific DRL. Just leave the lights turned on. Would be an issue for others tho.

          you'll also need a neutral safety switch installed most likely.

          I'm going to do the drl's, got a ticket in my Evo when I had forgot to leave them on one day. So for what it is worth I'll just do them.

          Won't need a neutral safety as it's an auto.

            April 12, 2016, 06:15 PM #5

            dano Offline

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            Originally posted by barrett
            you'll also need a neutral safety switch installed most likely.
            Don't need one of the car never came with one. Didn't need one for my Sti nor my TT.
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              April 12, 2016, 06:33 PM #6

              PK-FXT Offline

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              When you swapped headlights are the bulbs/harness the same?

                April 12, 2016, 08:13 PM #7

                AA_ron Offline

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                Originally posted by PK-FXT
                When you swapped headlights are the bulbs/harness the same?

                As long as the headlights that come on the JDM car aren't factory/aftermarket HIDs, they should be the same. Also, if it hasn't been said, you'll need USDM side marker housings (the ones with amber reflectors inside) to pass safety.

                  April 12, 2016, 08:25 PM #8

                  dano Offline

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                  Originally posted by AA_ron
                  As long as the headlights that come on the JDM car aren't factory/aftermarket HIDs, they should be the same. Also, if it hasn't been said, you'll need USDM side marker housings (the ones with amber reflectors inside) to pass safety.
                  Not entirely true. You can get Amber reflector stickers to stick on your car that are dot approved for like $5 from princess auto.
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                    June 25, 2016, 01:08 PM #9

                    simszero Offline

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                    I just had a safety on a JDM vehicle where the mechanic called MPI to find out exactly what was required. JIS seatbelts will not pass(or atleast should not) it needs to have CMVSS.

                    Not familiar with foresters, its possible they do have that on the JDM ones. None of the Toyota's I've had or seen did, but CMVSS is what they are looking for.

                      June 25, 2016, 03:33 PM #10

                      dano Offline

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                      Originally posted by simszero
                      I just had a safety on a JDM vehicle where the mechanic called MPI to find out exactly what was required. JIS seatbelts will not pass(or atleast should not) it needs to have CMVSS.

                      Not familiar with foresters, its possible they do have that on the JDM ones. None of the Toyota's I've had or seen did, but CMVSS is what they are looking for.
                      I could be wrong, but i don't think there will be cmvss on any seat belts. As fmvss and cmvss are equivalent, I think you'll only see fmvss on belts.

                      And that shows it depends on the shop. There was lots of talk of this a couple years ago - the JIS and FMVSS standards are basically equivalent, with the JIS tested to strength just a bit stronger than FMVSS.

                      So in this case for seat belts there's really no reason to fail it because of that.
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                        June 26, 2016, 01:34 PM #11

                        simszero Offline

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                        I understand that JIS is a as good or better standard, but its not what MPI accepts.

                        MPI specifically told the mechanic who called that it must say F or C mvss.

                        Most of the North American belts i've seen will show F/CMVSS on the label. That's whats on the belts I needed to install on my Hilux.

                        My Rear belts even have all 3 listed (Meets JIS & F/CMVSS) which I pointed out should confirm JIS would be equivalent and the Fronts should Pass and MPI said if the front belts don't have F or CMVSS its a fail.

                          June 26, 2016, 02:15 PM #12

                          sunshine Offline

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                          Originally posted by simszero
                          I understand that JIS is a as good or better standard, but its not what MPI accepts.

                          MPI specifically told the mechanic who called that it must say F or C mvss.

                          Most of the North American belts i've seen will show F/CMVSS on the label. That's whats on the belts I needed to install on my Hilux.

                          My Rear belts even have all 3 listed (Meets JIS & F/CMVSS) which I pointed out should confirm JIS would be equivalent and the Fronts should Pass and MPI said if the front belts don't have F or CMVSS its a fail.

                          This is correct. Even if JIS is slightly superior to FMVSS it's not what is accepted here if following the rules.
                          Depends if the shop will really look at it.

                          I heard rumors a week or 2 ago that an mpi person told a shop JIS belts are now accepted or don't matter when they visited the shop to review and update the safety regulations. I haven't been able to confirm yet though.
                          Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 11:08 PM by sunshine

                            June 26, 2016, 03:24 PM #13

                            simszero Offline

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                            that would be great news.

                            I would love to be able to put back my  mint condition JIS one's instead of running used one's that came from who know's where (a crashed vehicle for all I know). its all a giant piss off to me because as mentioned JIS is as good or better then our standard, and if the vehicle was sold here its going to be the exact same belts anyways with a different tag.

                            Currently a run into with the VIU/Police with JIS belts means demerits, your vehicle impounded and registration pulled.

                            On top of that I've heard (I don't know if this is accurate) that if you're in an accident MPI can void you vehicle claim because you are not operating with "proper" safety equipment.


                              June 26, 2016, 08:02 PM #14

                              PK-FXT Offline

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                              My forester will be going in for safety tomorrow and ill let you know how it goes but here is direct from MPI's booklet.


                              https://www.mpi.mb.ca/en/PDFs/VSIHandbook.pdf

                              If you go to page 22 you will see that there is no requirement for the belts to be labeled as such. Just be in good working order, with no defects.

                              Where as for lights in the booklet it explicitly says "All vehicle lighting must meet CMVSS, DOT or SAE standards for lights and signalling devices"


                                June 26, 2016, 08:04 PM #15

                                PK-FXT Offline

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                                Originally posted by simszero
                                On top of that I've heard (I don't know if this is accurate) that if you're in an accident MPI can void you vehicle claim because you are not operating with "proper" safety equipment.

                                I'd have to say that's not true. This past winter someone I know rear ended someone because they had no brake lights. Still were 100% fault even though MPI confirmed there was no working rear brake lights on the other car.

                                  June 29, 2016, 06:37 AM #16

                                  PK-FXT Offline

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                                  My Forester passed safety with flying colors. No issues. So I wouldn't have much worries about belts. As the safety inspection standards set by MPI don't require such labeling.

                                    June 29, 2016, 07:53 AM #17

                                    barrett Offline

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                                    Glad to hear it passed with no issues. I got my JDM forester safetied with no worries about belts either.
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                                      June 29, 2016, 02:28 PM #18

                                      simszero Offline

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                                      that's interesting. Do the forester belts have C or F MVSS on them or just JIS?

                                      As mentioned the shop I used contacted there MPI support who confirmed to them JIS is not accepted. It may have simply been overlooked by the mechanic. I know several people who failed safeties due to the belts.

                                      I've also heard of people being inspected by the VIU and having registration pulled over it.

                                        June 29, 2016, 11:03 PM #19

                                        sunshine Offline

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                                        Originally posted by PK-FXT
                                        My Forester passed safety with flying colors. No issues. So I wouldn't have much worries about belts. As the safety inspection standards set by MPI don't require such labeling.

                                        This is why I want to find out for what reason shops are told the belts need f/c mvss on the tags when they check with mpi.
                                        It is not in the manitoba safety inspection. It also doesn't say the markings are required in the Canadian motor vehicle safety regulations updated for 2016 that I could find. There are certain specs required for seat belts in Canada stated in the TSD 209(technical standards document) though.

                                        Since JIS is slightly superior to fmvss used in the states then it would make sense to accept them here.

                                        I'll probably give them a call myself on a day off and ask where I can find the documents saying they are required or what the situation is.

                                          June 30, 2016, 08:25 AM #20

                                          PK-FXT Offline

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                                          Originally posted by simszero
                                          that's interesting. Do the forester belts have C or F MVSS on them or just JIS?

                                          As mentioned the shop I used contacted there MPI support who confirmed to them JIS is not accepted. It may have simply been overlooked by the mechanic. I know several people who failed safeties due to the belts.  I've also heard of people being inspected by the VIU and having registration pulled over it.


                                          Hey if MPI is willing to share this information that defines what is acceptable or not then that's great. If the mechanics are going by the standards published to them and the public in the booklet I linked then it's the same standard a VIU inspector follows as well. So handing a ticket out based on hear say and speculation without really knowing the standards is unfair.


                                          Here is the VIU roadside "checklist". Again no mention of this required tagging. http://www.mpi.mb.ca/en/PDFs/VehicleInspectionReport.pdf

                                          Also this is from the Transport Canada regulations website, again does not mention required labeling. (Scroll about 55% down the page to seat belts)

                                          http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html#s-3.

                                          And this page as well... https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/roadsafety/209_TSD_rev_2R-EN.pdf

                                          As a multiple owner of RHD vehicles over the last 10 years I don't argue the fact about having the vehicle meet a certain standard (specifically headlights), but owners of RHD vehicles should not be ticketed and prosecuted for these make believe rules.  If anyone can find something that contradicts what I can find online let me know cause I am definitely interested. We should be protecting ourselves and our investments in these vehicles.

                                            June 30, 2016, 09:50 AM #21

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                                            It literally just comes down to money. MPI doesnt want to have to fix or pay for our sometimes hard to track down parts. But they cant outright ban the cars entirely, so they make it difficult to keep them on the road.

                                            Anyone who owns a RHD knows JIS is equivalent or better, and Im sure lots of people in MPI know that as well. But its difficult, and usually more costly to replace hard to find JDM parts, especially when you're vehicle doesn't have a USDM version. Even more so when it has rare body kits, JDM wheels etc. In addition to that we're paying good money for 15+ year old cars and in the unfortunate event one gets hit...its always a battle with them to get any kind of fair payout.

                                            So they make you jump through stupid hoops and purposefully make the rules foggy on what is allowed and what isn't. Then leave it up to interpretation of their often power tripping VIU/traffic officers to decide whats "too loud" or "too dark" or "not CMVSS compliant belts."

                                            In the end though rules are rules, regardless of the ignorance behind them. I would be incredibly surprised if MPI got any more tolerant of RHD cars, if anything it's just going to get more difficult.
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                                              July 02, 2016, 12:06 PM #22

                                              simszero Offline

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                                              Originally posted by PK-FXT
                                              Hey if MPI is willing to share this information that defines what is acceptable or not then that's great. If the mechanics are going by the standards published to them and the public in the booklet I linked then it's the same standard a VIU inspector follows as well. So handing a ticket out based on hear say and speculation without really knowing the standards is unfair.


                                              Here is the VIU roadside "checklist". Again no mention of this required tagging. http://www.mpi.mb.ca/en/PDFs/VehicleInspectionReport.pdf

                                              Also this is from the Transport Canada regulations website, again does not mention required labeling. (Scroll about 55% down the page to seat belts)

                                              http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._1038/FullText.html#s-3.

                                              And this page as well... https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/roadsafety/209_TSD_rev_2R-EN.pdf

                                              As a multiple owner of RHD vehicles over the last 10 years I don't argue the fact about having the vehicle meet a certain standard (specifically headlights), but owners of RHD vehicles should not be ticketed and prosecuted for these make believe rules.  If anyone can find something that contradicts what I can find online let me know cause I am definitely interested. We should be protecting ourselves and our investments in these vehicles.


                                              You're preaching to the choir my friend. I've owned 3 JDM vehicles over the last decade myself.

                                              I'm in complete agreement that the headlights should be changed for safety reasons and it greatly bothers me that I have to change perfectly good set belts with unknown condition ones (or shell out $750+ for new) over regulatory bull****.

                                              But I don't think you're correct in saying we don't need to worry about JIS belts just because you passed a safety with yours.

                                              Based on my and many other peoples previous experience, which was confirmed by a MPI representative to the shop I used to safety my truck a few weeks ago, it should not pass.

                                              More importantly my understanding is that currently if inspected means a ticket, 2 demerits, vehicle impounded and registration pulled until you can have it reinspected and pass.

                                              I would love for logic to prevail,but at the moment, I believe you still require C/F MVSS belts if you want to be safe.


                                                July 02, 2016, 02:45 PM #23

                                                Darkness Offline

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                                                The regulation that deals with the Vehicle Inspection Handbook has an accompanying schedule that isn't available online and I've never personally seen, which may outline the need for meeting the CMVSS requirements for seat belts.

                                                From what I've read there is no requirement to be labelled as meeting the standard like PK-FXT already stated. TSD 209 S4.1 j) does state:
                                                Quote (selected)
                                                Marking. Each seat belt assembly shall be permanently and legibly marked or labeled with year of manufacture, model, and name or trademark of manufacturer, distributor, or importer. A model shall consist of a single combination of webbing having a specific type of fiber weave and construction, and hardware having a specific design. Webbings of various colors may be included under the same model, but webbing of each color shall comply with the requirements for webbing in S4.2.

                                                Anyways, any vehicle imported under the 15 year rule does not have to meet most of the CMVSS regulations, they only have to meet provincial legislation. The legislation that MPI is basing the need for a label  meeting TSD 209 as seen in this memo http://www.righthanddrive.ca/attachments/mpi-memo.pdf is The Manitoba Highway Traffic Act Section 186(10).

                                                Quote (selected)
                                                Requirement for seat belts on sale of motor vehicle

                                                186(10)     No manufacturer of motor vehicles and no dealer, and no agent or employee of a manufacturer of motor vehicles or a dealer, and no other person, shall sell a motor vehicle that is, or is advertised to be, a motor vehicle of the model or make of the year 1971 or any subsequent year, unless the motor vehicle is equipped at the time of sale with a seat belt assembly or automatic occupant protection system, as defined in and required by the regulations made under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada), installed by the manufacturer.

                                                The problem with this is that it is only a requirement for selling the vehicle in Manitoba and not owning, purchasing, or importing the vehicle. It is to prevent people from selling vehicles with modified, removed, or broken seat belt assemblies as noted by the final words "installed by the manufacturer". The Motor Vehicle Safety Act also exempts the requirements on 15 year old vehicles, although MPI might argue that the legislation refers only to the specific seat belt regulations. If that is the case a seller of the vehicle may have to show that JIS matches the requirements or replace them with ones that can be proven to meet it (labelled). Now going back to my previous quote about markings, if the seat belt is correctly marked with its model number etc on it, you could possible be able to verify it is the same model as used in vehicles that meet the standard.
                                                Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 02:49 PM by Darkness

                                                  July 04, 2016, 06:51 AM #24

                                                  PK-FXT Offline

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                                                  Originally posted by Darkness
                                                  The regulation that deals with the Vehicle Inspection Handbook has an accompanying schedule that isn't available online and I've never personally seen, which may outline the need for meeting the CMVSS requirements for seat belts.

                                                  There may be something that does outline that JIS markings on belts do not qualify with MPI standards. After talking to some other mechanics myself over the weekend, they said they haven't had any issues when doing saftey inspections because in none of there criteria provided to them does it outline it. And he said there are actually many vehicles that don't even have visible tagging on the belts.

                                                  So regardless, if they want us to comply with these "standards" then why is it so hard to find the information? I can seem to find everything else, but can't seem to find the silly belt tags. How can we as owners comply if we can't even see the regulations.

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                                                    JDM Forester seatbelt question
                                                    « Reply #24 on: July 04, 2016, 06:51 AM »