Author Topic: The L  (Read 11275 times)

July 24, 2013, 09:56 PM #0

slipstreamconversion Offline

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Welcome to my newest purchase, as I like to call, The L.  Purchased on July 24 2013



This is a 2000 Saturn LW2.  Yes, this comes with the V6.  I acquired it for 250 bucks, one previous owner, came with brand new winter tires and 2 summer tires.  The things that attracted me to this vehicle is:

- the price
- roof rack
- the price
- winter tires
- the price
- 8 speaker sound system
- the price
- cargo cover
- and the price!

All in all, I've spent about $270.00 and now it's mine and insured under storage insurance.  Oh, btw, it's got this many KM on it:


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr

You probably guessed that there was a catch.

This car's timing belt let go, and therefore because it's an interference engine, means the valves are most likely toast.  It runs like a diesel, yet I've had it looked at and apparently it's salvageable.  When it cranks over, it cranks normal, and there is no hesitation..  which tells us that there is no miss in a cylinder.  It just knocks like a veedub diesel in the winter cold.

This thread is intended for discussion and volunteers on helping me get this vehicle on the road!  I should mention, this is more of an import than my current car!  It's a European platform.


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr

The rear seats fold down!


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr

Aaaand the two areas that need work:


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr


Saturn LW2 Phone Pic by Darcy Tiderman, on Flickr

Main post to be updated as time goes on.
Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 11:01 PM by slipstreamconversion

    Top Tier Imports

    The L
    « on: July 24, 2013, 09:56 PM »

    July 24, 2013, 10:04 PM #1

    Sheldor Offline

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    Darcy that is fantastic lol I really wish I could help Saturday. What are your plans for this once you get this thing running properly?

      July 24, 2013, 10:05 PM #2

      slipstreamconversion Offline

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      Road trip/Cabin runner

      Nice comfortable car to just chill.

      Could go camping in it too, tons of space haha

        July 24, 2013, 10:07 PM #3

        TonyPajamaz Offline

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        DAN&TAMMYs WEDDING <3
        [Jan 01 21:16:06] Faken:most steady hand/10

        [Sep 23 14:27:56] Faken:i was focusing on dan's bum

          July 24, 2013, 10:09 PM #4

          Sheldor Offline

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          So tv screens in the back with a ps3 attached, bumpin' sound system etc.

            July 24, 2013, 10:10 PM #5

            Stefan Offline

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            Congrats on the purchase Darcy. Welcome to the wagon family. We must now do the "How many people can we fit in the wagon" challenge.

            Like I said, you got this for a great price. I'm sure that is what attracted you to it the most ;)

             Is it on an Opel/Vauxhall platform?

            build it - race it -  break it - do it all over

              July 24, 2013, 10:12 PM #6

              Dan

              Originally posted by TonyPajamaz
              DAN&TAMMYs WEDDING <3

              Lol, dare i ask wtf this means....

              Congrats Darcy :)

                July 24, 2013, 10:14 PM #7

                slipstreamconversion Offline

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                Originally posted by Stefan
                Congrats on the purchase Darcy. Welcome to the wagon family. We must now do the "How many people can we fit in the wagon" challenge.

                Like I said, you got this for a great price. I'm sure that is what attracted you to it the most ;)

                 Is it on an Opel/Vauxhall platform?



                I should imagine this would fit a lot more than your car, good sir.

                  July 24, 2013, 10:16 PM #8

                  Anne Goose Offline

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                  Originally posted by Js594
                  Lol, dare i ask wtf this means....

                  Congrats Darcy :)

                  are you an r-tard??

                  [Dec 08 16:45:00] Adomp:do I talk to autter about that? I thought she was the person to speak about the UHL
                  [Dec 08 16:44:39] Adomp:is there a an Ugly Hockey League? event like this wont happen again.

                    July 24, 2013, 10:17 PM #9

                    slipstreamconversion Offline

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                    Yeah that was a sign pointing to their wedding a long time ago lol.

                      July 24, 2013, 10:18 PM #10

                      Stefan Offline

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                      Originally posted by slipstreamconversion
                      I should imagine this would fit a lot more than your car, good sir.
                      That it will. Just curious as to hom many more. haha


                       Is it on an Opel/Vauxhall platform?
                      build it - race it -  break it - do it all over

                        July 24, 2013, 10:20 PM #11

                        slipstreamconversion Offline

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                        Based on the Open Vectra B platform

                          July 24, 2013, 10:27 PM #12

                          boostfreak Offline

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                          Thats an Opel engine. You are thinking of the J series Honda engines in the Vue and what not.

                          Sweet deal though, even if you need another engine, was still very much worth the cost. I might be able to help out
                          BNRJAMZ
                          '13 Fiat 500 Turbo
                          Originally posted by: Igor
                          i don't know why you would want to say its an sti, especially around people that know what they are looking at. like buddy, its a wrx, who cares. personally i find it insulting that he calls it an sti

                            July 24, 2013, 10:28 PM #13

                            slipstreamconversion Offline

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                            Well I'm glad you subscribed to this thread Dave, I'm gonna try my best to ask questions as best I can and take video to accompany it.

                            Also didn't know that about the engines, I assumed they were the same as the VUE.  I learn something new everyday :P

                              July 24, 2013, 10:38 PM #14

                              boostfreak Offline

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                              Yeah, that would have been much better :lol:

                              I have some of the special timing tools you might need.  And a cherry picker. I wouldn't mind giving it a listen sometime. From your video I think the shop set the timing up wrong, bent the valves, went "oops" then set the timing up correctly, while the damage had already been done. I drove around an old B series on bent valves for months, and that's exactly what it sounded like til it eventually gave up haha
                              BNRJAMZ
                              '13 Fiat 500 Turbo
                              Originally posted by: Igor
                              i don't know why you would want to say its an sti, especially around people that know what they are looking at. like buddy, its a wrx, who cares. personally i find it insulting that he calls it an sti

                                July 24, 2013, 10:42 PM #15

                                slipstreamconversion Offline

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                                Well then one day you're free, give me a message!  I plan on checking out the wreckers to see what's out there in terms of new stock.  I have Bucks and Tow Mator and Pick A Part/Canadian Auto on the lookout for me.  Hopefully they come up with something..

                                Would be cool if you looked at it before I go ahead and get too ahead of myself :P  You seem to have more experience with these than anyone I know.

                                  July 24, 2013, 10:44 PM #16

                                  Faken Offline

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                                  man for $250.. can never go wrong. approved Kendeal sealed.
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                                  Ken

                                  [Mar 26 13:45:26] Igor:hearts before parts

                                    July 24, 2013, 11:40 PM #17

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                                    You really only bought it for $200, that thing has 3/4 a tank of gas! Liquid gold ya hear!
                                    [Jan 01 21:16:06] Faken:most steady hand/10

                                    [Sep 23 14:27:56] Faken:i was focusing on dan's bum

                                      July 25, 2013, 12:04 AM #18

                                      fruitloops Offline

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                                      Sweet buy man! I would love to come over sometime while your working on it to gain some car knowledge.
                                      Bought, not Built.

                                        July 25, 2013, 08:22 AM #19

                                        slipstreamconversion Offline

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                                        Posting some reference material for myself:

                                        Quote (selected)
                                        http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114197

                                        Quote (selected)
                                        Tools needed.

                                        THE V6 LOCKING KIT or Non-tool method
                                        Socket set with extension bar.
                                        Adaptors to accomodate the fact that you will need to use 3/8" bits on 1/2" and vice versa for torque setting.
                                        Torx Sockets, Set comprising E10 - E16 for General use, E20 to turn the crank.
                                        Torx bit TX50 (only need this if you need to manually move the cams i.e the old belt had slipped)
                                        Torque Wrench
                                        30mm wrench for the pullys.
                                        13mm wrench and Allen ket to set the tension.
                                        15mm wrench for the AUX belt tensioner.
                                        Rubber mallet to persuade the waper pump to come off.
                                        Screwdrivers
                                        12 pack of beer and the phone number to the local pizza place to keep your buddy interested in helping you. (priceless)

                                        Hope this may inspire someone to give it a go!

                                        Here is a few links I found with great instructions. Remember the Saab 9-5 shares the same L81 GM 3.0L DOHC engine. This first link should be all you need to get the job done. Also go to your local library and see if they have the Haynes manual for the car, they should also have AllData and if your lucky you can access the AllData from home with library card.

                                        http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/saab.htm#gtb_timing_belt_and_pulley_replacement_instructions___how_to___

                                          July 25, 2013, 09:23 AM #20

                                          krb599 Offline

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                                          good luck with it, hope everything goes well
                                          2000 Pontiac Grand Am Se1 - Daily Driver
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                                            July 25, 2013, 10:01 AM #21

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                                            I would just pull the heads and check the valves. If more than about 2-3 valves are bent, toss the engine. At ~$40 a head gasket and $10 a valve, repairs become rather expensive, especially if the engine was run with bent valves, as you'll need new guides and likely a valve job on those ports.

                                            Weren't these engines known for blowing up in the timing area, I recall it being a guide or something of the sort that breaks/loosens?
                                            [Aug 01 15:48:26] dolan:Guys i really dont care, im still young enough to learn from all my mistakes.

                                              July 25, 2013, 01:35 PM #22

                                              boostfreak Offline

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                                              • boostfreak is working their way up.boostfreak is working their way up.boostfreak is working their way up.
                                              The Catera's (shudder) had recalls on the timing tensioner for this same engine. Happened a lot in the Saturns too.
                                              BNRJAMZ
                                              '13 Fiat 500 Turbo
                                              Originally posted by: Igor
                                              i don't know why you would want to say its an sti, especially around people that know what they are looking at. like buddy, its a wrx, who cares. personally i find it insulting that he calls it an sti

                                                July 25, 2013, 11:42 PM #23

                                                slipstreamconversion Offline

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                                                • slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.
                                                Day 1 - Initial Teardown



                                                Well, popping the hood this time around was more of a last minute chance for me to stop here.  No going back.  So this time, I popped the hood knowing after I close it again, my car would not be able to run.

                                                Steve (stevejr47 - sixthsphere.com) was readily available through FB for any guides and information we may need about the L.

                                                We cleared the air box out of the way, and got the intake manifold off.  Surprisingly hard to do, considering there was tons to move and unbolt. 

                                                The first intake manifold, belonging to the cylinder bank closest to the front had an oily residue inside it, which lead us to believe we weren't going to like what we seen inside.  The second manifold, belonging to the cylinder bank closest to the cabin, was dry and cleanish.  We weren't sure what we were going to find by going further.

                                                Getting under the intake, and looking into the valves, we could see that there may have been bends, but it's too hard to see in there.  We closed it up, now knowing what we were dealing with, and could now more effectively get it apart in a faster timespan.

                                                Dave (boostfreak - TopTierImports.com) came over and took a quick look.  Upon what we told him, he suggested that the timing is most likely off, to adjust it to a correct position and see where we go from there.  For all we know that can fix the whole problem, or it could do nothing. 

                                                Only one way to find out, so on Monday, we lift the engine and begin correcting the timing...  Stay tuned!

                                                  August 13, 2013, 07:24 PM #24

                                                  slipstreamconversion Offline

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                                                  • slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.slipstreamconversion is a force to reckon with.
                                                  Couple weeks later - At a standstill



                                                  So here is what has happened.  We went at it.  Picture heavy, due to the nature of the build and me probably needing help somewhere down the line. 

                                                  The vehicle ran when I first got it.  Sounded like:



                                                  After this I had someone whom has fixed many-a-car before.  And he started to rev it.  I was like what the hell are you doing man?!?!???  Then it died.  He said he was diagnosing it, but I'm still angered about this, as it most likely made the problem worse.  And it did.  Here is the video of right before we started taking it apart for realzies:



                                                  So we started digging in.  Unbolting, moving, storing.. 









                                                  We noticed the serpentine belt was new, but the timing belt was factory.  This was strange as the lady who had it before me said she got the timing belt replaced.  Maybe she was confused between the two?





                                                  End of day one:



                                                  So this was about the point after my above post.  Now to progress forward..

                                                  We start here and move along







                                                  Strange now, crossthreading..  Someone has been here before..



                                                  It's weird because the thermostat (which looks new by the way) seems to not need this piece off.. So that means someone has accessed this area before..  My heart starts dropping right around this point..







                                                  Valve cover seals looked alright.  Newer oil which is nice.  The cam lobes have little markings on the edges which I learned later are supposed to be there.  Had a minor heart attack.  This whole area looked quite alright, but then again I've never done this before.  That's why I'm here after all.









                                                  Tear it down a bit more to get those cams out



                                                  Spacers have no wear on them, ****ty picture, I apologize



                                                  A few hours, and a lot of unplugging/reaching for stupidly placed bolts and some pulling to get the heads off, we find:



                                                  Holy piss.  Let me stroll you through all of them up close.











                                                  All the bent valves are on the intake side, the exhaust valves are fine.  In fact, leak testing the exhaust valves, they leaked none.  How are the pistons you ask?

                                                  Well pulling off the heads resulted in me getting coolant everywhere (drained it all, but some stayed in the engine)



                                                  Soaking this up, revealed:















                                                  So you can see, the timing was obviously off.  A lot of this can be smoothed out with an emery cloth, or so I'm told.  However Dan (Js594 - toptierimports.com) and Aaron (darkstar - toptierimports.com) advised that using this engine is no longer an option if I want a reliable DD. 

                                                  So after coating the cylinders with oil, this is where I'm at:



                                                  I'm either going to have to buy a new motor, or find out what's required for an ecotec swap, the engine from the L100 and L200.  Sourcing an engine is pretty hard for this car, none at Bucks and the one that's available right now, I can't obtain yet.  Rebuilding this is an option, but probably will cost as much as the new engine.  I just feel bad because this block has such low km.  An ecotec swap, I feel would be a longer process.  Although the engine itself is way more reliable, I feel I wouldn't get it done by the time I need to.

                                                  I just want to get this thing on the road asap before it gets cold out..  Ca va mal..

                                                  That's my progress report thus far.

                                                  Published on:
                                                  TopTierImports.com - http://toptierimports.com/index.php?topic=5241.0
                                                  Sixthsphere.com - http://sixthsphere.com/showthread.php/87559-quot-The-L-quot
                                                  SaturnFans.com - http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193846
                                                  Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 07:37 PM by slipstreamconversion

                                                    Top Tier Imports

                                                    The L
                                                    « Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 07:24 PM »